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	<title>Comments on: Per Capita Soldiers in India</title>
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	<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/</link>
	<description>A Blog of Major General Surjit Singh (Retd)</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Surjit Singh</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-185009</link>
		<dc:creator>Surjit Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2022 07:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-185009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the kind words. There is no shortage of &#039;gems&#039; around. But you need a sharp eye to spot them!
Go right ahead, and use whatever portion of the article for your work. Everything that is posted on our blog is in the public domain. As long as you mention the source you are at complete liberty to quote extracts.
God bless
Surjit]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the kind words. There is no shortage of &#8216;gems&#8217; around. But you need a sharp eye to spot them!<br />
Go right ahead, and use whatever portion of the article for your work. Everything that is posted on our blog is in the public domain. As long as you mention the source you are at complete liberty to quote extracts.<br />
God bless<br />
Surjit</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lt Gen Kapil Aggarwal</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-185008</link>
		<dc:creator>Lt Gen Kapil Aggarwal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2022 07:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-185008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Sir,

   It was a pleasure reading the article (again), written in your light, inimitable style. The concept of per capita soldier is innovative and on checking the calculations today, the figures are not very different. The addendum tracing defence expenditure from independence is a gem!!
                                 With your permission, I would like to add this per capita concept to my analysis in the paper I have written.
 And Yes, I have attempted alternative solutions to the ToD concept.  I am of course bracing for criticism because at least a couple of them are somewhat radical and will raise heckles of some of those who read it.
                                                    Warm regards  


--
 Kapil Aggarwal
  New Delhi
 # 8130366900]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sir,</p>
<p>   It was a pleasure reading the article (again), written in your light, inimitable style. The concept of per capita soldier is innovative and on checking the calculations today, the figures are not very different. The addendum tracing defence expenditure from independence is a gem!!<br />
                                 With your permission, I would like to add this per capita concept to my analysis in the paper I have written.<br />
 And Yes, I have attempted alternative solutions to the ToD concept.  I am of course bracing for criticism because at least a couple of them are somewhat radical and will raise heckles of some of those who read it.<br />
                                                    Warm regards  </p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
 Kapil Aggarwal<br />
  New Delhi<br />
 # 8130366900</p>
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		<title>By: Col NN Pasupathy</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-158859</link>
		<dc:creator>Col NN Pasupathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Feb 2020 15:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-158859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Sir,
I read your excellent article on the above subject fwd through WhatsApp group Veteran Eagles of Secunderabad. 
This started a healthy discussion. Since you are not listed in the group, you will  not be able  to read the views of others on this subject.
I am copying and pasting my comments on the connected subject of Pension below. I wish to recollect that I was Director Equipment under you as ADG ( RM) 
My comments on your article 

An excellent article. Unfortunately, an impression has been deliberately created by the civilian beurocracy that  the powers in the higher echelons of uniformed service must find a solution for this which is blatantly wrong. No one in the ministry of Finance is made responsible for the burgeoning NPAs of the banking sector. No one in any  ministry is cc tasked as to how to stop the waiver of farmers loans year after year . No one questions when the Chief Minister guarentees Rs. 7000 per month for every unemployed graduate in his state( No one will even apply for a job if he gets this kind of sop is another thing) But what we in the Army do? Bend over backwards to solve this issue which is not basically our problem. Does any one questions the life time pension granted to every village Panchayat member, MLAs, MPs as to what is the total outlay to meet this. In fact the Pension outlay of the Armed Forces personnel must be taken over by the Ministry of Human resources and not by Ministry of Defence. The second important point to note why the Naval or Air Force Headquarters are reacting on this issue like the Army Head quarters. In my opinion the Army must confine his agenda only for the role they are called on to execute. How the pension bills are to be tackled must be left to the Government of the day. Proposing to raise the retirement of Jawans to 58 years etc. are  quixotic or in other words Thuglagian ( in our context) solutions to say the least.
My further comments on a post saying the proposed idea of increasing service age to 58 would solve the issue by another member : 
Very well said. But the remedy getting suggested and proposed is to increase the service age of all soldiers, JCOs and of course 99% of officer Corps of the Army to 58 years! There is a study ordered for this and obliging Presiding officers and members might even recommend the same. The fouj will reduce  recruitment in a  phased  manner over the next ten years by which the present strength of soldiers of the age of 48 would have gone home on attaining the age of 58. Then what, there will be a more or less gap of almost near zero intake for a few years. But while the pension bill may reduce progressively, the salary bills will increase as these soldiers will go through two more Pay Commissions during their service life! But there will be no work for any training centres as most of the soldiers would have completed their mandatory cadre courses. But what is most striking is will you put a company of 45 plus year old soldiers for an attack to capture a feature like Tiger Hill? Will a sailor of 45 be able to survive in a submarine? Will an Air Force corporal able to haul the arrestor for the landed aircraft in a carrier. But the bigger question is do Indian Navy and IAF are in agreement for this proposal. If the Government wants to keep a fighting  fit Armed Forces, it is its problem to find the funds for it. Does a Five Trillion economy  have to depend on Army HQ to find a solution for meeting the pension bill. Ridiculous!
With warm regards,
NN Pasupathy
Col (Retd)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sir,<br />
I read your excellent article on the above subject fwd through WhatsApp group Veteran Eagles of Secunderabad.<br />
This started a healthy discussion. Since you are not listed in the group, you will  not be able  to read the views of others on this subject.<br />
I am copying and pasting my comments on the connected subject of Pension below. I wish to recollect that I was Director Equipment under you as ADG ( RM)<br />
My comments on your article </p>
<p>An excellent article. Unfortunately, an impression has been deliberately created by the civilian beurocracy that  the powers in the higher echelons of uniformed service must find a solution for this which is blatantly wrong. No one in the ministry of Finance is made responsible for the burgeoning NPAs of the banking sector. No one in any  ministry is cc tasked as to how to stop the waiver of farmers loans year after year . No one questions when the Chief Minister guarentees Rs. 7000 per month for every unemployed graduate in his state( No one will even apply for a job if he gets this kind of sop is another thing) But what we in the Army do? Bend over backwards to solve this issue which is not basically our problem. Does any one questions the life time pension granted to every village Panchayat member, MLAs, MPs as to what is the total outlay to meet this. In fact the Pension outlay of the Armed Forces personnel must be taken over by the Ministry of Human resources and not by Ministry of Defence. The second important point to note why the Naval or Air Force Headquarters are reacting on this issue like the Army Head quarters. In my opinion the Army must confine his agenda only for the role they are called on to execute. How the pension bills are to be tackled must be left to the Government of the day. Proposing to raise the retirement of Jawans to 58 years etc. are  quixotic or in other words Thuglagian ( in our context) solutions to say the least.<br />
My further comments on a post saying the proposed idea of increasing service age to 58 would solve the issue by another member :<br />
Very well said. But the remedy getting suggested and proposed is to increase the service age of all soldiers, JCOs and of course 99% of officer Corps of the Army to 58 years! There is a study ordered for this and obliging Presiding officers and members might even recommend the same. The fouj will reduce  recruitment in a  phased  manner over the next ten years by which the present strength of soldiers of the age of 48 would have gone home on attaining the age of 58. Then what, there will be a more or less gap of almost near zero intake for a few years. But while the pension bill may reduce progressively, the salary bills will increase as these soldiers will go through two more Pay Commissions during their service life! But there will be no work for any training centres as most of the soldiers would have completed their mandatory cadre courses. But what is most striking is will you put a company of 45 plus year old soldiers for an attack to capture a feature like Tiger Hill? Will a sailor of 45 be able to survive in a submarine? Will an Air Force corporal able to haul the arrestor for the landed aircraft in a carrier. But the bigger question is do Indian Navy and IAF are in agreement for this proposal. If the Government wants to keep a fighting  fit Armed Forces, it is its problem to find the funds for it. Does a Five Trillion economy  have to depend on Army HQ to find a solution for meeting the pension bill. Ridiculous!<br />
With warm regards,<br />
NN Pasupathy<br />
Col (Retd)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Thomas Lenity</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-78081</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Lenity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2015 12:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-78081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many days back I read Brig. Mahalingam write up on same subject. This piece is more justified. We may have to remain more time with tunnel vision due to our Fatigue awaiting OROP and other benefita from the steel frame and at the end of the day they will understand the truth, the reality that this mighty frame was held and supported by the Armed Forces.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many days back I read Brig. Mahalingam write up on same subject. This piece is more justified. We may have to remain more time with tunnel vision due to our Fatigue awaiting OROP and other benefita from the steel frame and at the end of the day they will understand the truth, the reality that this mighty frame was held and supported by the Armed Forces.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Vice Admiral Barin Ghose</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-70828</link>
		<dc:creator>Vice Admiral Barin Ghose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2015 06:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-70828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Surjit was an old colleague from the days of the 4th Pay Commission. He, then Wing Commander Bhatt and self worked on officers pay scale. We had our difficult times including the late evening meeting in CNS/Chairman COSC office.

After retirement he has been writing on defense matters. In his latest article attached it is indeed to difficult to imagine the percentage of the defense budget in the very first budget presented in Independent India as compared today. If only the percentage was any where close to this we would have no problem with the pension bill 


Vice Admiral Barin Ghose (Retired) AVSM VSM

A 23 Trinity Towers DLF Phase 5

Gurgaon 10023

Haryana

Phone 0124 4044069

Mobile 9871381469

E Mail baringhose@yahoo.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surjit was an old colleague from the days of the 4th Pay Commission. He, then Wing Commander Bhatt and self worked on officers pay scale. We had our difficult times including the late evening meeting in CNS/Chairman COSC office.</p>
<p>After retirement he has been writing on defense matters. In his latest article attached it is indeed to difficult to imagine the percentage of the defense budget in the very first budget presented in Independent India as compared today. If only the percentage was any where close to this we would have no problem with the pension bill </p>
<p>Vice Admiral Barin Ghose (Retired) AVSM VSM</p>
<p>A 23 Trinity Towers DLF Phase 5</p>
<p>Gurgaon 10023</p>
<p>Haryana</p>
<p>Phone 0124 4044069</p>
<p>Mobile 9871381469</p>
<p>E Mail <a href="mailto:baringhose@yahoo.com">baringhose@yahoo.com</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Maj Gen Vijay Krishna</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-70723</link>
		<dc:creator>Maj Gen Vijay Krishna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-70723</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I entirely agree with you , at this rate we should not expect it even June ,
 Vijay]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I entirely agree with you , at this rate we should not expect it even June ,<br />
 Vijay</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brig BD Mishra</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-70509</link>
		<dc:creator>Brig BD Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2015 04:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-70509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Surjit,
I think your ratiocination of the OROP issue is germane and cogent. Lest the concept of &quot;Per ca pita&quot; be  misunderstood in the context of  maintaining the standing armed forces in our country, it implies :&quot;moving with the time&quot;.

There is no gainsaying the fact that the YOUNG armed forces are the compelling necessity of a sovereign country and not the vice versa. Prudent nations never let the trust of their soldiers attenuate in theESTABLISHMENT.

  Unfortunately in India there is only lip service, &quot;Jai Jawan&quot; to hail the service men.This strangely seems to be an ongoing trend.

 Nehru found the concept of standing armed forces an anachronism.He did not alter his views even after 20 October 1962 when you and me manned our defences and lost many brave comrades-in-arms next to our trench.

We have not learnt our lessons despite 326 BC,712 AD,1025 AD, 1192 AD,1526 AD, 1757 AD and Op Gibralter.

Perhaps you are right ! Taking care of our combatants, retiring in their late thirties, after their ( in our time) 7+8 years Colour + reserve service, India can not afford !!.

 It beats all sane comprehensions as to why our economists cannot differentiate between the high cost factor and a defeat by keeping the low cost armed forces!!!

You have raised a nationalist issue.

 Regards

Brig Dr. BD Mishra 

 Course Mate]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Surjit,<br />
I think your ratiocination of the OROP issue is germane and cogent. Lest the concept of &#8220;Per ca pita&#8221; be  misunderstood in the context of  maintaining the standing armed forces in our country, it implies :&#8221;moving with the time&#8221;.</p>
<p>There is no gainsaying the fact that the YOUNG armed forces are the compelling necessity of a sovereign country and not the vice versa. Prudent nations never let the trust of their soldiers attenuate in theESTABLISHMENT.</p>
<p>  Unfortunately in India there is only lip service, &#8220;Jai Jawan&#8221; to hail the service men.This strangely seems to be an ongoing trend.</p>
<p> Nehru found the concept of standing armed forces an anachronism.He did not alter his views even after 20 October 1962 when you and me manned our defences and lost many brave comrades-in-arms next to our trench.</p>
<p>We have not learnt our lessons despite 326 BC,712 AD,1025 AD, 1192 AD,1526 AD, 1757 AD and Op Gibralter.</p>
<p>Perhaps you are right ! Taking care of our combatants, retiring in their late thirties, after their ( in our time) 7+8 years Colour + reserve service, India can not afford !!.</p>
<p> It beats all sane comprehensions as to why our economists cannot differentiate between the high cost factor and a defeat by keeping the low cost armed forces!!!</p>
<p>You have raised a nationalist issue.</p>
<p> Regards</p>
<p>Brig Dr. BD Mishra </p>
<p> Course Mate</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lajpat Sachdev</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-70406</link>
		<dc:creator>Lajpat Sachdev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-70406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Surjit,
Our congrats, What a  wonderful analysis. We are grateful.

How is Surinder  and how are the young men and what are they doing.

Love &amp; regards.

.Krishna - Lajpat]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surjit,<br />
Our congrats, What a  wonderful analysis. We are grateful.</p>
<p>How is Surinder  and how are the young men and what are they doing.</p>
<p>Love &amp; regards.</p>
<p>.Krishna &#8211; Lajpat</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zal Kabraji</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-70405</link>
		<dc:creator>Zal Kabraji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-70405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very interesting read. One can draw individual conclusions..... 




 

 
 (SOURCE: VASUNDHRA BLOG)
 

















Per Capita Soldiers in India]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting read. One can draw individual conclusions&#8230;.. </p>
<p> (SOURCE: VASUNDHRA BLOG)</p>
<p>Per Capita Soldiers in India</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: col J P Narain</title>
		<link>https://amolak.in/web/per-capita-soldiers-in-india/#comment-70340</link>
		<dc:creator>col J P Narain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2015 07:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amolak.in/web/?p=3678#comment-70340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Gen, well written article, covered up all aspect. The article basically started on cost of defence forces to the nation. You analysed the cost well n it is the cheapest in ratio to our population n threat perception n also in relation to our neighbours. Lastly security to the nation does not come cheap. Look at the threats we have internal as well as external n every time there is a serious problem Govt want Army to short it out n that&#039;s the last resort. If we want the best mil we have to pay them the best n also look after their future or say old age which is very frightening when one look few yrs ahead. While in service we have all kind of restrictions n can&#039;t look beyond our pay n pension to better our finances, even to the extant a soldier get nothing out of his land holding while in service. So a soldier has to face a multi pronged problems to live a respectable post retirement life in today&#039;s word. If we want the best materials to join the Mil than we have to pay him the best n not only while in service but also when he is retired. finally we have no dearth of wealth if corruption is controlled, few people have hoards of money so are our temples n their societies which may go to enemy hands as in the past, if we do not have strong Army. Better pay it to Mil instead of  enemy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Gen, well written article, covered up all aspect. The article basically started on cost of defence forces to the nation. You analysed the cost well n it is the cheapest in ratio to our population n threat perception n also in relation to our neighbours. Lastly security to the nation does not come cheap. Look at the threats we have internal as well as external n every time there is a serious problem Govt want Army to short it out n that&#8217;s the last resort. If we want the best mil we have to pay them the best n also look after their future or say old age which is very frightening when one look few yrs ahead. While in service we have all kind of restrictions n can&#8217;t look beyond our pay n pension to better our finances, even to the extant a soldier get nothing out of his land holding while in service. So a soldier has to face a multi pronged problems to live a respectable post retirement life in today&#8217;s word. If we want the best materials to join the Mil than we have to pay him the best n not only while in service but also when he is retired. finally we have no dearth of wealth if corruption is controlled, few people have hoards of money so are our temples n their societies which may go to enemy hands as in the past, if we do not have strong Army. Better pay it to Mil instead of  enemy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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